A friend recently sent me an article with a compelling debate. In it, the author noted that the same ideas and principles that made the Bush Administration so reviled, are being used by the Obama administration and winning him great praise. The author’s example was straight up thought provoking. I don’t know where I stand about the topic, but the prompt led me to talk about my philosophy. Here’s a tutorial on how to be a Utilitarian.
The author talked about how for years the left complained about Bush’s stance on torture/interrogation in the war on terror….the left’s reasoning, War on Terror: It's possible to save lives without crossing a moral line that might corrupt us. They rejected Bush’s rationale to obtain intelligence from suspected terrorists by any means necessary. The moral query here is, how much ruthless violence should we use to defeat ruthless violence?
However, he then went on to talk about stem cell research. This time arguing that the Left is now guilty of applying Bush rationale to the advancement of science. Obama is seen as progressive in that he is backing the federal funding of stem cell research, but the Left’s reasoning for this is similar to the rationale that Liberal’s disagree with when it comes to the war on terror: Stem Cells: We’re in a life and death struggle against disease, and stem cell research is an option to combat that. We must defeat disease by any means necessary. The moral question here is, creating and destroying embryos for the sake of life, how many people, in the name of life, are you willing to surrender to death?
Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Morality is complicated as hell, so when I heard about this guy named John Stuart Mill, I adopted his philosophy instantly. I’m not an atheist or anything extreme like he was, but when it comes to social matters I go with Utilitarianism.
Utilitarianism is a philosophy based on utility, the economic principle of greater monetary value. For people and society, value is measured in happiness. Thus, Mill decides what we should and should not do based on what will result in the greater overall human happiness, not just of oneself, but a anticipatory inclination on how your acts, decisions, and beliefs affect the entire world’s happiness. It sounds lofty and unreasonable, but it works, and I’ll show you how with some major issues. I’ll give you my stance on the major issues in our society, and show how they have nothing to do with my religious or political affiliation, but only happiness.
Death Penalty:---For it.—Yea, it’s a perfect penalty in a justice system that is imperfect, which makes it unfair. However, John Wayne Gaysey, Jeffry Dalhmer, Timothy McVay…..kill them. With un-repented murderers, it will bring greater happiness to the victims’ families to know that these people are no longer walking the earth, than to nay-sayers that feel all ppl can be rehabilitated.
Abortion----For it. Yea, plenty of people want to adopt, but there will never be a shortage of babies in the world. If a kid is conceived and will be born into a horrible situation with an unfortunate future, the greater happiness lies with the parents not having to deal with that situation more so than the people who will be happy if the baby is born into a shitty life just because “life begins at conception.”
Native American Mascots in Sports---Against it—Yea they look cool, and draw back on a school or university’s heritage. But bottom line, that’s the Native American equivalent to a minstrel show, black-face. Just because you don’t see Native Americans every day, don’t mean they aren’t there and pissed and offended as hell. Outlawing those mascots result in greater happiness for them as they are not reminded of their painful American history,…much more happiness than the fans who simply get a kick out of seeing a mascot at a game.
Denim on the Basketball court---Against it,--Yea I know you want to hoop and you forgot your shoes and shorts, but there’s change in your pocket, you’re sweating more than usual, and it hurts when you bump into me in your heavily starched Roc-a-Wears…if you have nothing but a Lacoste Polo and matching jean jacket, sit this one out. The greater happiness lies with the people who can enjoy a true pickup game, without your denim sucking all the energy out of the gym.
16 comments:
All of these topics are sticky situations ever since humanitarian groups have made their voices heard. But one cannot be really sure as to what is going on until he has witnessed it himself.
In times of war, desperate times call for desperate measures. And how do you deal with people that follow no laws? So why should we allow these people the comfort of our own laws. My point is... these people, maybe not all of them, do not follow laws, they do anything and everything possible to harm, defeat and destroy us at every possible opportunity. So how is it that we are suppose to combat them when we use legal means. The legal system of this country thwarts the military at every opportunity, (but lets executives get away with murder 'so to speak'). (the government is currently bailing out numerous large firms that committed egregious errors, criminal errors, all to make a profit, and all at the expense of the working man). It would be very hard to defend this country if illegal measures were not taken. I am not saying that it is right. But i do believe that it is a necessary evil to a certain extent. Some of these people are the most evil men on earth. We Americans take our safety and security for granted. This is not to say the government goes about this in the right manner, but without there illegal procedures, we would have been attacked by other terrorists cells by now. guaranteed. You dont get to the top of anything, without cheating a little. Most people dont understand what is going on over seas, and only see the humanitarian side of it, cause thats all thats reported in the newspaper, "because they have never walked up to the edge, and looked down" (Emerson, 24 speaking to Jack Bauer). you dont read about the countless discovered terrorist cell plots being thwarted (that probably happens everyday) by brave people who put their lives on the line, and who they themselves are probably tortured. So while we sleep comfortably every night in our secure homes, know that there are other americans out there deep under cover trying by any means possible to keep us that way. You have to take everything with a grain of salt. It may not be right. and you may not agree with everything the government does. but in the deepest darkest recesses of your mind, your grateful. so yes, in my mind, torture is a necessary evil.
stem cell research -- all for it. if its going to save lives. do it. why should religion dictate policy?
death penalty -- all for it. an eye for eye. fuck murderers.
Abortion -- all for it. why bring someone into this world that is going to start at the bottom and (statistically) going to stay there. and (statistically) end up being a criminal? It it the parents choice to decide whether or not they would like a child. why this is such a hot topic in government is beyond me, church and state are suppose to be separate. so why are we letting religious freaks guide our policies as a nation?
native american mascots -- who gives a fuck? there is a 'FIGHTING' irish as the ND mascot. they dont give a shit. he has red hair. is dressed in a ridiculous outfit, has a pipe, with his fists ready to fight. and appears to be extremely intoxicated. how come irish people are not up in arms over this? native americans need to shut the fuck up.
denim shorts -- i would like to include non basketball shoes into the equation. or any shoes that u wear outside. playing on a nice wood floor should be reserved for clean shoes. dirty shoes lead to dirty floors, slippery floors, and ultimately... injuries. and the people that wear these non basketball shoes... never seem to injure themselves. go figure.
I agree with most young beto,...but the argument of necessary evil is dangerous because it can be applied differently to many people and many situations.
With the war on terror thing, people using your logic could argue to justify rounding up all immigrants from Arab nations, or take it to an even further extreme...(see Wikipedia, Holocaust) the reason humanitarian lawas and accordances like the Geneva convention exist even in war is because the idea of necessary evil is a slippery slope...Germany which Germany fell down in WWII and brought Europe with it.....
Native American Mascots....u really know how to push my buttons, on the real I just want you to admit that your argument is flawed for 2 reasons....1. the Notre Dame Fightin Irish mascot is not protested by Irish people because the Irish were not historically persecuted to the extent that Native Americans were. Irish people are doing just fine in America, native Americans are not.
2nd, you say tell Native Americans to shut the fuck up, well Native Americans would say the same thing to you and be right....Native Americans were systematically, killed and removed from their land to make way for settling whites, it's how the country was born and bred, and now white people have the nerve to adopt Native American culture as mascots for their sports teams....that's wak.....
if your argument is that Native Americans should shut up and take it....then it's not really an argument...shutting up and taking it implies that the practice is wrong, but they shouldnt complain about it, well they are burc, and apparently loudly enough to where your lil chief down at u of i is gone forever, so I must not be crazy.
There are only 3 types of native americans.
the first -- alcoholics. they are notoriously known for being drunks who cant handle their liquor, who end up killing themselves, because they believe their problems are the worst in history. 'The whites' defeated 'the indians' over 200 years ago. get over it. ur telling me after 200 years there are still in the SAME position? Get off the reservation. get a job.
2-- casino owners/managers etc. they have finally found a way to exploit 'the white' man. taking one of his largest vices and profiting from it. now with all the money they make... why cant they build decent schools, and an educational system back on the ranch to help their people get out of poverty?
3 -- the third kind of native american (i prefer to use the word indian, not sure how its still derogatory), but the third kind, is the dead kind. there are a combined 500 indians left in the united states. everyone else who claims they are indian is false, being 8% of something or even smaller, is not being indian. ill give u 25% or half, but not an 8% or smaller.
4 -- maybe the irish werent systematically killed like the indians. but learn ur history. when the irish arrived in the united states way back when, they were just as poor as the indians are now. maybe even worse (cause the indians get money from the government). irish lived in the slums of the slums of new york. the worked for next to nothing, in dangerous conditions. the children were even put to work in factory's. were many lost fingers, hands and arms. and u know what... ur right. the irish are doing fine now... cause instead of blaming mother nature for the potato famine, and the 'white man' for poverty, they got off their ass' and worked, and pulled themselves out of the gutter. they made something of themselves. and yes, now they are doing fine. so get at me when the indians, after 200 years, get off the couch and actually try to stop feeling sorry for themselves, blaming 'the white' man for all their problems... and help themselves out. tell then... not another word about mascots. because its a fucking mascot.
also-- one last tidbit-- when 'the white' man came here, yes there were a lot of promises and treaties that were broken. but it was a fucking war. in war, people die, people are exterminated. and people are conquered. it has happened throughout history. look at any great and powerful nation in history, and they will have an account of defeating a lesser foe, chasing them from their land, and killing them off. stop feeling sorry for the indians. survival of the fittest.
wow,...u turned this whole argument on its head...first dont accuse me of not knowing my history, I know history...but if think that Irish ppl have acheived their social status merely through the hard work of immigrants, and that Native Americans are subjugated still because they are lazy and blame all their problems on White ppl....then, we can no longer have this debate......
I dont see how a person, who's half Mexican can recognize Irish immigrants hard work and not acknowledge white priveledge,...because if it's all about hard work Burc, then why are Latinos (mexicans in particular) still a subjugated race,...many are immigrants, many work hard for next to nothing, and have been in this country for more than 200 yrs as well.
Yet somehow, they're still discriminated against harder than ever.
Im not surprised at your bigoted remarks about Native Americans about the "3 types of Native Americans" nor am i surprised by the generalizations you maintain in regards to their culture. But I am extremely surprised in you if you think that European (white) immigrants of the 1800s came here, worked hard, and gained acceptance eventually because of their hard work........and the races that did not emigrate to this country, but were enslaved, removed or enveloped into the land by war (Black, Native Americans, Latinos)...are still oppressed solely because they do not work hard, and they blame white people for all of their problems.
u make wonderful generalizations. but u did not state ONE solid fact in that entire rebuttal (if u can even call it that). first off. mexicans just started coming back in the 1950's. they havent been here since the war of 1812. maybe a few stuck around. but not all. most went back to mexico. again, i have to teach u some history. the usa goes through a cycle of using immigrants. or slaves, or whatever u want to call them. one, the blacks, slaves for hundreds of years. asians, maybe not slaves, but paid next to nothing for building railroads and such. the irish. other europeans, an now the mexicans. everyone has gone through it and persevered. except... the indians. dont put mexicans and indians on the same boat as far as time in this country and the work they have put it. mexicans have made HUGE strides over the last 60 years. the reason it looks so bad is because there are SO MANY MEXICANS. but there are a ton of successful mexicans in this country. i think u need another history course.
Instead of making a refuting your argument, I will instead ask you a question. And it will get to the core of this debate once and for all.....U said every race goes through the cycle of being used, be it immigrants or slaves and that every race has persevered through it except for Native Americans....correct?
So if that's the case, is that what denies them the right to complain about the mascot issue.
Basically, since you feel that Native Americans should "shut the fuck up" and not complain about the mascot issue, What is your reasoning for that sentence and that sentence only.
If I were a Native American, and I told you that your the cheif offended me, and you wanted to let me know exactly why I had no right to complain, what would you say to me?...letme know caus we got horribly off point with the history thing.
i never said they didnt have a right. i said they need to such the fuck up. cause no one cares about the plight except them. my whole argument was that no one cares about indians. and this whole deal with mascots is outrageous. its a fucking mascot. if anything, it is letting people know they still exist. cause without mascots, no one really knows that they do. all u do is talk about the chief. and yes u of i is a public university. but how come people are not going after the washington REDSKINS. cleveland INDIANS? YES... they are private. but so are many things that people attack. plus... those two are the most offensive. those are even offensive to me. so why is a chief parading around doing a rain dance (which is actually accurate to what they use to do) being abolished, and there is no pressure to these MAIN STREAM, national and internationally known professional teams?
I will gladly answe that. The reason that Native Americans hate the chief is because though it is a mascot, it isnt a guy with a bear mask or a dude in a benny the bull costume,..it is LITERALLY a white guy,barefoot in buffalo skins and feathers, with make-up on, doing a rain dance and acting like a savage FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT OF 1,000s of white people in the stands....
It is the exact same in principle as a 1920s minstrel show, in which, it was white people's most popular form of theater at the time to have...LITERALLY a cast of white people, dress up in black-face makeup, dance around, eat chicken, and speak bad english imitating black people for the ENTERTAINMENT OF 1,000s of white ppl in the stands......
native americans today, they dont feathers and buffalo skins, they dont do rain dances, and they dont walk around barefoot with their arms folded. They wear regular clothes, have regular jobs, and regular shoes
Thus the chief is a primitive stereotype beto, and stereotypes are offensive, even to native americans. And the native americans of Illinois do not want to pay taxes to a state that uses a primitive stereotype as its University's mascot. That's why they're upset.
as far as the Indians and redskins, there has been protest and outrage over those logos, but it was small because they are private so the debate gets squashed. And the reason i dont protest those is because i dont live in clevland or wash, and have no connection to the redskins or indians, but I DID attend Illinois, see the cheif, and being that its my alma mater, it affects me much more.
I agree with you that no one cares about the plight of native americans but them,....but i think that's the prob.....caus at one point in history, when blacks complained about being 2nd class citizens, no one cared about the plight of black people but them as well.....
there's a lot of similiarities between the racism they face and the racism black ppl face,...and that's why i identify w it and argue on their behalf.
And that brings us to the conclusion of todays debate. be sure and join jason and i tomorrow for another, well fought, well argued, and healthy discussion. and dont be afraid to add your own thoughts. until then. this is beto burciaga. stay classy chicago.
The debate shifted gears a few too many times, but Grey had it right. I personally am not offended by the use of Native Americans as team logos because there is a sense of local tradition there. However the mascots too often are showcases of extremely stereotypical views of those people. The Irish don't complain because they are in the majority and have no need to feel threatened by such an image.
What was done to the Indians in the country is horrible, in my opinion it goes along the lines of a Holocaust, but instead of gas chambers the early settlers handed out blankets with disease (biochemical warfare 200 years ago). So give them a break.
In reference to the issues brought up in the blog:
Death penalty- Against it. These people get off easy in my opinion either way. One way you die and don't have to live a controlled life. Life in prison, you live better than the millions of homeless in America. So I would rather see those convicted of truly heinous crimes treated almost as if they were dogs. Strip them of their humanity since they showed zero regards for someone elses.
Abortion- It does not matter either way, just so long as the woman is able to choose. If the woman can not choose what to do with what is inside her, it would only be fair for women to insist the government take measures expand on birth control, forcing men to take more action.
First off. biochemical warfare was not invented or used until world war 1 maybe even 2, cant remember. as much as people would like to think that the settlers were that gruesome and genius at the same time, its a false accusation. the settlers UNKNOWINGLY gave the indians blankets infested with disease. but get this... the blankets didnt affect the europeans because they were USE to the diseases. they had NO WAY of knowing the indians would die from diseases, they were unaware of. it would be like americans going to mexico and drinking the water. they get sick. mexicans can drink the water because they live there and their bodies have built up an immunity. thats what happened with the blankets. it was not bio terrorism.
and how can u be indifferent about abortion. ur either for it. or against it. there is no on the fence. im sure if u got a girl pregnant u didnt want to be pregnant u would be praying she got an abortion. and that it was legal. its all relative.
Beto is right about bio-terrorism,..early settlers aint know about germs or anything like that. But the point is Beto, and u keep taking issue with other things....even while beans doesnt feel as strongly about it as I do, mascots like the cheif are wak in his eyes cause you shouldnt revel in the racial humiliation of another person....(even if u dont understand or agree with their being humiliated and offended by it)And for the record, if u think all Irish people don't care about the Notre Dame mascot, just ask Bedell...he's as irish as they come and he hates it....but it's nothing to fuss about, caus things are pretty decent in the US fro Irish ppl, (all white ppl) right now in America.
Alright, prepare to have an egg of knowledge cracked over your skulls. The comment train has evolved so much and I want to address a lot of issues in this comment so bear with me. As a philosophy major I find this article (started out on utilitarianism) incredibly interesting - it's an argument that has been debated and debated for years. The fact that people still argue and present different view points on this subject is a testament to the fact that there may not be one clear cut answer in some situations. But, I think that when you look at these arguments you can easily make a distinction between things that are right and wrong. Whether its abortion, the death penalty, war etc...I would hope that everyone can agree that murder is wrong. There is no grey area in this topic. What ends up happening in these arguments is that you try and come up with a justification for it but note that rarely does the inherent evil of the action come up. For example, we try and justify war by saying that we are spreading democracy or that we are saving lives of our people by taking the lives of others. Either way, inherently what we're doing is wrong. As much as I love St Augustine, I still find the just war theory somewhat hard to swallow - a just war seems close to an oxymoron to me. One of the hottest issues of our time is abortion. People like to pin the Catholic church down on this issue using the cases of rapes and people born into hard times etc... The problem I have with abortion is that people like to treat it as a necessary evil. As if, well here's a young couple that had sex and oops! well then we'll just get an abortion. I understand that this isnt every situation, but I think I read somewhere that rape consists of like 1% of all abortions, meaning that the overwhelming majority is from pure unwanted pregnancy (i could be wrong but just throwing it out there). Why doesn't anyone look at the problems into society that lead to underage, unprotected sex? For me, THAT is the issue not whether its right or wrong to kill an unborn child. I would hope that everyone would say it is without a doubt wrong to kill...PERIOD. Everyone makes it into a justification of reasons why its ok...it's never "ok." There will always be something wrong with it and I can't see how anyone else can dismiss this. Another example - our prisons are overcrowded and the idea of the government (read: the taxpayer) paying to keep rapists and murderers alive boggles my mind. However, why do people argue about whether or not to murder the murderers (Again ironic in my mind) when we should be talking about the problems in our society which leads to crime, murder etc... Why don't people raise up and band together to fight poverty and injustice? Not to be too religious on everyone, but one of the main ideas of Pope John Paul II was that we need to combat apathy. People are way too complacent with the ways things are and we don't speak up. I completely agree. My last point on this matter is that the reason utilitarianism fails is that inherently the systems depends on universal agreement from everyone. Meaning - who is meant to decide what is best for the universe? When Truman decided to drop the A-bomb I sure as hell bet the Japanese wouldn't have gone alone with the plan. If you're on a sinking boat with 3 friends and you can only save 2, I bet that other friend would speak his mind against the majority. The point is that the only one that can decide, or know what is best is God. Deciding who should live or die is God's call...not ours. I understand that there are many problems in the world but the answer is not to say that something like abortion is ok. Abortion is a serious problem in my mind and I think the world would be a better place if there wasn't any. Murder is a problem, I think the world would be better without it. Maybe these things are necessary as we work through them. Obviously we are not perfect by virtue of the fact that we are human. But that doesn't mean we can't strive to be perfect because it is only in our pursuit of perfection that we can actually improve.
That's pretty much what I wanted to put down on that topic. As I hope you can tell, I'm incredibly passionate about topics like this and I love to try and sort things out through dialogue. The only other thing I wanted to say on the whole immmigration/school mascot talk is that I agree with Jason that certain mascots can be degrading. This is mostly for Beto but I will just say that the plight of the Native Americans is one of the worst marks on our nations history. What we did to them was plain wrong...and it never gets talked about. We destroyed a race - it was genocide. We forced families out of there habitat, forced them to give away their land, tricked them into signing treaties that they didnt understand until finally there were essentially none left. It wasn't a war at all. You never hear about the "Native American War of 1876"...instead what happened was that after the Civil War when everyone continued on the path moving west, you had guys like Custer that literally went around killing people. The US wanted land and the only thing standing in their way was the people living on it. If you really want to read a good book read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee...a classic. Also not sure who brought up the biological warfare not being invented til recently, but when the Spanish came over they brought blankets with small pox. I don't know how that's not considered biological warfare. They erased tribes because they knew that the native people would have no immunity or medicine to fight it. Another fascinating time in history. Well that's about as much time as I can take away from work. Comments?
I am glad someone else backed me up on the biochemical warfare, they knew soon after the first tribes grew ill and died what was happening because they were familiar with the symptoms the Indians were experiencing and knew what was happening.
I do agree with you Chris that as a society we need to examine the why more. We need to look more into why kids can't afford proper birth control or have access to the proper family planning facilities. But to do so you have to examine the problem, it is a vicious circle. One can say that the proper actions are not taken to further and better educate the public on sex because of the same reasons they oppose abortion, their religion and desire to avoid taboo topics. I feel once a decision on the end game it is then easier to decide on those contextual factors.
I could not agree with you more that murder is wrong. But I don't think abortion is murder. There is nothing out there that tells me the fetus growing is the same thing as a human being, the end product. In my opinion it still a bunch of living cells that will create a human being. During the first trimester especially there simply is not enough there to call it a human being just yet. I know this will sound horrible but one could argue that it is nothing more than a parasite if the 'mother to be' does not want a child. I know this is something we just will fundamentally disagree on, but my point of view is something that must be considered when anyone considers reversing Roe v. Wade. And that is why I am "on the fence", because on a topic such as abortion, not only should I not have the right to tell any woman what to do with her body, but no pol in Washington should either, because it is their body and their life. Let them live with their decision.
I did not mean to go on and on about abortion but I could not find much fault with Chris' points because they were all valid and well thought out.
Chris' points were all valid,...except for the part about addressing real problems. You cannot combat apathy Chris, because humans are still at a very basic sense, just animals. Though we have capacity for emotions like love, sadness, and compassion, we rarely truly care about that which does not directly affect us.
Thus these things have to be dealt with in real time. WE have to decide for ourselves what right and wrong is. You are right that we may not be addressing the real issues behind abortion, death penalty and poverty etc.....but I don't think it's realistic to expect people to ever think in that mindset. but overall,...sanity has prevailed.
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